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Split Thread Pig heart transplanted to a man

The Great Zaganza

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The Great Zaganza
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That is pretty interesting. Does a pig's heart have the capacity needed for a human?
 
Disappointing. I thought we'd be cloning organs by now. How hard can it be?
 
Next they will be doing an elephantiplast, or putting a mans head on a pigs body.
Like in a film with Malcom McDowell.
Edited by Darat: 
Off topic comment remnoved.
 
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Scorpion said:
Next they will be doing an elephantiplast, or putting a mans head on a pigs body.
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As complicated as the heart transplant is, a head transplant is orders of magnitude more, since you have to splice not only muscle, bone and blood vessels, but the most important nerves in the body.

No, head transplants, if they are possible at all, which is doubtful, are a long way off.
 
arthwollipot said:
As complicated as the heart transplant is, a head transplant is orders of magnitude more, since you have to splice not only muscle, bone and blood vessels, but the most important nerves in the body.

No, head transplants, if they are possible at all, which is doubtful, are a long way off.
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But if you don't bother with that, head transplants are very easy, as the main arteries are huge.
Sickos have done it with dog ages ago.
 
arthwollipot said:
No, head transplants, if they are possible at all, which is doubtful, are a long way off.
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I agree, they really are most likely impossible.

They still haven't figured out how to unparalyze people with a severed spinal cord. That would have to come first. If you can't do even that, a head transplant is out of the question.
 
Puppycow said:
I agree, they really are most likely impossible.

They still haven't figured out how to unparalyze people with a severed spinal cord. That would have to come first. If you can't do even that, a head transplant is out of the question.
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Ah, but consider a rich, old man with multiple impending organ failures (but a working brain) having his head transplanted on a healthier, younger body that died of a head injury.
Yes, he would be quadriplegic, but alive, and technology could compensate for some of the paralysis.

I'm wondering why this hasn't happened already.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Ah, but consider a rich, old man with multiple impending organ failures (but a working brain) having his head transplanted on a healthier, younger body that died of a head injury.
Yes, he would be quadriplegic, but alive, and technology could compensate for some of the paralysis.

I'm wondering why this hasn't happened already.
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This is the common scenario that comes up. The problem would be in any half-decent country getting the permission of the like of ethics boards, especially as you'd be killing one body and one head.
 
Darat said:
This is the common scenario that comes up. The problem would be in any half-decent country getting the permission of the like of ethics boards, especially as you'd be killing one body and one head.
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Plenty of not so decent countries out there...
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Plenty of not so decent countries out there...
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Yeah - that's why I added that caveat. Apart from China mind you I don't think there would a country with good enough medical personal and good enough equipment. Could see a Xi going down that route if he had no other option.
 
Ethics is that a good body has partts for 22 people, instead of ONE head transplant.
 
Personally I think its about time the medical community took this route as opposed to the artificial or otherwise mechanical version. The advantage being that a pigs heart would better respond to the rest of the body more naturally, and without the use of an attached medical apparatus. This, and the fact that anti-rejection drugs are relatively quite common.
 
Olmstead said:
Brainless people farms!

Or something like that. Patent pending.
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So just for the sake of speculation, I think you would at least need a brain stem to keep the other organs alive. The brain stem controls involuntary muscles like the heart and the lungs.

But, the bodies would also need food and exercise to stay healthy. Without exercise they would atrophy. The idea that somehow we could grow a whole new body and then somehow transfer a person's consciousness into that new body has a lot of challenges. As science fiction, this idea appears in the TV show Altered Carbon. In that show, the bodies are called "sleeves" and they allow wealthy people to basically live forever, because they have backup "sleeves" ready and their consciousness is also backed up regularly.

But the details of how this could possibly work in reality are left somewhat vague. (Apparently aliens made the technology)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_Carbon_(TV_series)

Altered Carbon is an American cyberpunk television series created by Laeta Kalogridis and based on the 2002 novel of the same title by English author Richard K. Morgan.[1] In a world where consciousness can be transferred to different bodies, Takeshi Kovacs, a former soldier turned investigator, is released from prison in order to solve a murder.
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In the future, a person's memories and consciousness (termed digital human freight, or DHF) are recorded onto a disk-shaped device called a cortical stack, which is implanted in the vertebrae at the back of the neck. These storage devices are of alien design and have been reverse-engineered and mass-produced but can only be made from the material on Harlan's World. Physical human or synthetic bodies are called "sleeves" and stacks can be transferred to new bodies after death, but a person can still be killed if their stack is destroyed and there is no backup. Only the wealthiest, known as "Meths" in reference to Methuselah, have the means to change bodies through clones and remote storage of their consciousness in satellites, so they never have to die of old age before being resleeved.[7]
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So maybe if we can figure out how to replace our biological brains with "stacks" or artificial brains of some sort, maybe we can live forever. But that's easier said than done.
 
While the mindless bodies grow and are kept alive, we could use the electricity generated from their body to power a robot civilization.
 
By the way, ...

Does anyone else recall the infamous "Peking Homunculus" from Dr. Who?

He was one nasty, little, swinish critter all right.

;)
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Ah, but consider a rich, old man with multiple impending organ failures (but a working brain) having his head transplanted on a healthier, younger body that died of a head injury.
Yes, he would be quadriplegic, but alive, and technology could compensate for some of the paralysis.

I'm wondering why this hasn't happened already.
Click to expand...

I think that's the plot of a Robert Heinlein novel.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Ah, but consider a rich, old man with multiple impending organ failures (but a working brain) having his head transplanted on a healthier, younger body that died of a head injury.
Yes, he would be quadriplegic, but alive, and technology could compensate for some of the paralysis.

I'm wondering why this hasn't happened already.
Click to expand...

Of course, being a quadriplegic can have drawbacks. As was pointed out in 1961.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkWgu1XHLHE
 
Darat said:
Is that usual for a heart transplant?
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RecoveringYuppy said:
Necessary.
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An ECMO is NOT necessary. Maybe you are thinking of a heart lung bypass during the operation.

Conclusions: ECMO support is a viable option for adult heart transplant recipients with severe rejection and refractory cardiogenic shock. To maximize the benefit of this aggressive approach in heart transplant recipients requires early intervention, with a heightened awareness of this option to facilitate expedited use.
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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21676629/
 
Darat said:
Is that usual for a heart transplant?
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No.

Hyper acute heart transplants occasionally occur for patients on ECMO*, but in general the (heart) transplant units do not like transplants on a pump or ECMO for infection and bleeding reasons. Lung transplant units will almost universally refuse patients on ECMO. Severe heart failure patients are usually bridged onto a ventricular assist device.

*ECMO would be unusual as the gas exchange component is not needed this would usually be on an aortic balloon pump. ECMO implies a severe lung problem that would normally require a lung or heart lung transplant. A good example would be a young woman with severe pregnancy induced heart failure, who was on a balloon pump but failed to improve post delivery, she would get a hyper acute transplant on a pump.
 
Crossbow said:
By the way, ...

Does anyone else recall the infamous "Peking Homunculus" from Dr. Who?

He was one nasty, little, swinish critter all right.

;)
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I do. The Talons of Weng-Chiang, 1977. Simultaneously one of the best-written and yet most racist of the Doctor Who stories.
 
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RecoveringYuppy said:
Thanks. I think my answer may have missed the point of Darat's question and I'm also a bit confused by Planigale's answer so I think I'll just sit back and read for a while.
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ECMO (extra corporeal membrane oxygenation) is very similar to a heart lung machine. It is primarily used for lung failure, quite a lot of people with severe covid pneumonia have been on ECMO recently. It can provide cardiac assist but it is primarily a lung assist / replacement. Cardiac assistance is usually provided by an aortic balloon pump. Both ECMO and balloon pumps limit you to being an in-patient. Both can be started very quickly if you have the equipment to hand, they do not need invasive surgery. Both have problems with infection and bleeding.

VADS (ventricular assist devices) are surgically implanted pumps that help the heart, they are compatible with leaving hospital. The power supply is a bit of an issue. They can function for (a few) years.

In general getting a transplant as an emergency that fits / matches is difficult, so it is easier and more successful if someone is on a VAD than a pump, as there is less time pressure.
 
This technology has the potential to end the shortage of organs for transplant worldwide. Imagine if anyone who needs a kidney could get one with no long wait on a transplant list.

It also opens up the potential for engineered enhancements to those organs.

We're still in the early days, but this is an exciting step forward.

Here's a nice little interview with George Church talking about this technology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHyQymp8wtw
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
Picture of the patient looks familiar. David Bennett of Baltimore (near where I'm from).

ETA: He paralyzed a neighbor of mine.
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wait...

In the face of such a shortage, it can seem unconscionable to some families that those convicted of violent crimes would be given a lifesaving procedure so many desperately need.
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People worry about this? I could understand if someone was on the run and the hospital performed it without alerting people if they knew about it....but we are talking about a convincing?
 
I'm okay with this as long as the rest of the pig is turned into delicious pork products.

Wait... that would lead to more heart disease and oh my god! :eek:
 
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