Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

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That's weird. A healthcare worker like yourself not knowing that heroin is classed as a depressant. So categorised because it has a depressant effect on the autonomous nervous system (ANS)..

Hey, leave Trump alone, we share a common ancestor, apparently.

Vixen do not use big words you do not understand.

There is no such thing as an autonomous nervous system. There is an autonomic nervous system. Heroin (TM) or diacetylmorphine (diamorphine) is a centrally acting depressant it acts on the central nervous system.
 
Vixen do not use big words you do not understand.

There is no such thing as an autonomous nervous system. There is an autonomic nervous system. Heroin (TM) or diacetylmorphine (diamorphine) is a centrally acting depressant it acts on the central nervous system.

Long time since I did my degree.

But we are all agreed it is NOT stimulant that makes people high.
 
The Italian compared with an English Translation:

10. L'intrinseca contraddittorietà degli elementi probatori, emergente dal testo della sentenza impugnata, inficia in nuce il tessuto connettivo della stessa pronuncia comportandone itannullamento.Ed infatti, in presenza di uno scenario contrassegnato da tanta contraddittorietà il giudice del rinvio non avrebbe potuto pronunciare sentenza di condanna, ma - come, in precedenza, osservato - era tenuto ad emettere statuizione assolutoria, a mente dell'art. 530, comma 2, cod. proc. pen.​
It annulled the Nencini conviction, and acquitted them giving Article 530 Section 2 as a reference, which is an acquittal.

So what are we talking about?

"L'intrinseca contraddittorietà degli elementi probatori, emergente dal testo della sentenza impugnata, inficia in nuce il tessuto connettivo della stessa pronuncia comportandone itannullamento."

"The intrinsic contradictory nature of the evidentiary elements, emerging from the text of the contested judgment, invalidates the connective tissue of the same pronunciation {judgment} and entails its annulment."

"era tenuto ad emettere statuizione assolutoria"

"he {Judge Nencini} was obligated to issue a ruling of acquittal"

Nencini's verdict was quashed. The "facts" of the Nencini judgment - that is, those interpretations of evidence the Nencini court advanced - were demolished.

Knox and Sollecito were acquitted - found not guilty - of the murder/rape of Kercher.

There are several words in Italian for "acquittal". One is "assoluzione" and its derivatives. Another is "proscioglimento" and its derivatives. In the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure, proscioglimento is used as a more general term, to include all types of dismissal, including "no need to proceed", "acquittal", and "extinction of the crime due to statute of limitations", and applies at all stages of the proceedings (not only at the preliminary stage).
 
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Another total misrepresentation by the guilters:

Heroin "is NOT {a} stimulant that makes people high"

The truth:

"Heroin, also known as diamorphine among other names, is an opioid most commonly used as a recreational drug for its euphoric effects. .... It is used as a recreational drug for the euphoria it induces."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin
 
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Curatolo wasn't high because he'd taken heroin, as it's a depressant he was chilled and laid back meaning he was totally clear about what he saw.

Amanda and Raffaelle committed a savage rape and murder as they were on such a frenzied high, because they had taken, wait for it .............................................................................................................
cannabis.

OK, got it now
:jaw-dropp
 
Long time since I did my degree.


Pathetic.



But we are all agreed it is NOT stimulant that makes people high.


Seriously. Can you not read? A drug does not need to be a stimulant to make the user "high". You have a fundamental, woeful misunderstanding of what the word "high" means in respect of mind-altering-drug use. And you've been shown piles of reliable evidence to indicate that heroin (and, for that matter, all mind-altering drugs) can make the user "high" after ingestion.

So, Vixen, we are actually all agreed (with the inexplicable and embarrassing exception, to this point, of you) that heroin - irrespective of the fact that it is not a stimulant - makes people high when they take it. OK?
 
It had no grounds to annul the verdict.

Simply ignoring Chieffi doesn't give them the power to do so.

Marasca and Bruno acted outside of their remit.

As Briars says, Knox has never challenged Marsca & Bruno's damning indictment of her. Too scared to let the US public know that she washed off Mez' blood, covered up for Rudy and was present at the scene, and heard Mez screaming. It also found that like Raff, she lied, and lied and lied.

Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda telling lies. Vixen repeats the same falsehoods that supreme court said Amanda was there at the time of the murder, Amanda washed Meredith’s blood off her hands, covered up for Rudy and told numerous lies. PGP viciously attack Amanda for lying whilst telling falsehoods in the same post which have been said in post after post. It takes a special degree of stupidity not to see this blatant hypocrisy. If Amanda was such a prolific lair, how do you explain the arguments PGP have to resort to sustain this claim? If Amanda has told so many lies, you would think PGP would have no problems listing these lies. Below is a post from Bill Williams with a list compiled by Harry Rag of supposed lies told by Amanda and Raffaele. All the lies were from Raffaele. If Amanda was such a prolific liar, why was Harry Rag unable to compile a list of these lies and could only name lies by Raffaele?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10430492#post10430492

Vixen has made false allegations that Amanda has lied. Below is a post where Vixen makes the false allegation Amanda and Raffaele lied about a leaking pipe

Post dated 24.05.2016

Claim: a long convoluted story surrounding a mop found propped up by the front door of the cottage when postal police arrived was concocted by the pair, which any marine would be proud of in the scheme of tallest of tall stories about burst pipes and leaks as of the time of the murder.

Truth: There is no record of the postal police asking about the mop and there is no record of any conversation regarding the mop between Amanda, Raffaele and the postal police. There was an actual leak in Raffaele’s apartment as seen in the link below

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/frequently-asked-questions/

In the post below I pointed out Vixen made a false allegation Amanda lied about the police asking her about Meredith’s sex life.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11849235#post11849235

In the post below Vixen says Amanda lied about being subject to 53 hours interrogation.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11952561#post11952561

As this link shows Amanda was telling the truth about 53 hours interrogation.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/the-interrogation/

I have found three instances where Vixen has made false allegations that Amanda lied. Besides making false accusations Amanda has lied, Vixen constantly repeats the falsehood the supreme court said Amanda and Raffaele told numerous lies. If Amanda has told so many lies, why do PGP have to resort to lying to sustain this idea? There are numerous ways in which PGP have shown gross hypocrisy in attacking Amanda and Raffaele for lying. Falsely accusing Amanda of lying and then branding Amanda a liar is one way PGP have shown their vile hypocrisy.

Below are some of the numerous falsehoods Vixen has told in her posts which serves as a reminder just how hypocritical PGP are when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11938562#post11938562
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11942852#post11942852
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11598412#post11598412
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11427461#post11427461
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11951893#post11951893
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11982023#post11982023
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12107306#post12107306
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12200863#post12200863
 
Heheh they work at top chambers, way out of your price range, probably. One has been nominated as barrister of the year a few times by the law society.

You have no idea as to my income level or what I can afford.
Perhaps these lawyers, who take such 'pride' in their ability to understand a case "on the hoof" with just a "quick read of the salient parts" should remember that pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Chiacchiera was saying that 'he knew' that a shower had supposedly been reported. He didn't actually verify himself there had been a shower taken.

MaCh:
Of the bathrooms, if I take a shower in a bathroom where I find faeces instinctively pull the drain, in short.
MC:
Yes, but the feces were on the other bathroom.
MaCh:
Yes, yes, I understand, however, in short, somehow is instinctive, no, to pull the drain. The fact is that ...
GCM:
Excuse me, do you know how many bathrooms there were in the house?
MaCh:
Two.
GCM:
Two bathrooms. Sorry, please. Do you know that a shower was taken?
MaCh:
Yup.
GCM:
How do you know?
MaCh:
I know it because it's something that I can not, I think, report because it was ...
GCM:
But you have verified ...
MaCh:
I try to be very very careful.
GB:
President, we are talking about nothing.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Marco_Chiacchiera's_Testimony

So your claim Chiacchiera investigated the shower and confirmed it is a complete nothing burger.

Ummm...no. I never said he "investigated" the shower. I said that he said a shower had been taken. Which he did as quoted above. Neither did Chiacchiera say he knew a "shower had been reported". He said "I know it because it's something that I can not, I think, report ". Notice the subject is "I" and not "it". Try again.
Additionally, Bongiorno asked him about the shower again:

GB: You said, it can be seen in the transcription, that another anomaly would be given by the fact that, indeed/in fact, Knox took a shower in a bathroom, and in the same moment, you said verbatim – because I wrote it here – you said “to me, this seemed anomalous, because if I see faeces in the toilet, I flush the toilet, and I don’t take a shower”.

MaCh: Yes, I was wrong: she didn’t take the shower there.

GB: She didn’t take the shower there. You see, therefore, that this is your error...

He is correcting his error in stating that Knox took a shower in Laura and Filomena's bathroom but does not say she did not take a shower in her own.
Why you think the JUDGE saying "we are talking about nothing" somehow negates what Chiacchierra had just said?

By the way, I'm still waiting for the "negative question" you claim explains Chiacchiera's answer of "yes".

He also says:

Was it in all the rooms or just in some rooms?

MaCh:
"I was in Romanelli's room, where the stone was. I entered the corridor, along the corridor, which I remember. I looked at all the various traces that were inside the bath. I saw the feces, so I also went into the other bathroom. "

So, in effect Chiachiarra kept his distance from the small bathroom as he feared contamination of the scene.


LOL! I do so love it when you hoist yourself with your own petard. Chiacchiera did not say he didn't go into the bathroom; he said he didn't go into Meredith's bedroom but he did go into both bathrooms. Try reading it again but very slowly this time.

That's weird. A healthcare worker like yourself not knowing that heroin is classed as a depressant. So categorised because it has a depressant effect on the autonomous nervous system (ANS)..

Hey, leave Trump alone, we share a common ancestor, apparently.

This is the second time you have claimed I am a healthcare worker and this is the second time I will correct you. I am not a healthcare worker and never have been. Please try and remember that. However, I do know that heroin is a depressant. I also know that heroin creates a "high" in the sense of a feeling of euphoria. This has already been pointed out to you.
Why am I not surprised that you share a common ancestor with Trump? I can see the resemblance in your inability to ever admit error.
 
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It had no grounds to annul the verdict.

Simply ignoring Chieffi doesn't give them the power to do so.

Marasca and Bruno acted outside of their remit.

As Briars says, Knox has never challenged Marsca & Bruno's damning indictment of her. Too scared to let the US public know that she washed off Mez' blood, covered up for Rudy and was present at the scene, and heard Mez screaming. It also found that like Raff, she lied, and lied and lied.

You keep claiming that M/B acted outside their remit yet you have been quoted directly from the Code proving they did act within it. After 3 years there has been no protest within the Italian judiciary claiming the acquittal was outside the legal and correct powers of the Marasca Bruno court. Why is that? Is it the Mafia and/or the Masons? Perhaps the CIA? Or maybe the Secret Society of Witches and Satanists? Take your pick.

As for your and Briar's nonsense regarding Knox not challenging the C of C's motivation report, you read into it what you will. Nobody cares what the two of you "think" about it.
 
There is the "occasional" (meaning, pretty darn frequent) odd statement from one or more guilters. For example, in arguing that Curatolo, a self-acknowledged heroin addict, did not have perception that must be considered deficient because of his addiction, especially at the relevant time, Oct. 31 and Nov. 1:

"... heroin is classed as a depressant. So categorised because it has a depressant effect on the autonomous {sic} nervous system (ANS)"

But, as pointed out earlier, heroin creates a sensation of being "high" (a colloquial term) which is more formally "euphoria". Here's a medical definition of euphoria:

"euphoria [u-for´e-ah]
an exaggerated feeling of physical and mental well-being, especially when not justified by external reality. Euphoria may be induced by drugs such as opioids, amphetamines, and alcohol and is also a feature of mania. adj., adj euphor´ic."

Source: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/euphoria

A definition of heroin:
"A highly addictive analgesic drug derived from morphine, often used illicitly as a narcotic producing euphoria."

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/heroin

Introductory information on opiods and their effects may be found at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid

Heroin is an opioid (opiate): "Esters of morphine opiates: slightly chemically altered but more natural than the semi-synthetics, as most are morphine prodrugs, diacetylmorphine (morphine diacetate; heroin)...."

"Common side effects {of heroin} include respiratory depression (decreased breathing), dry mouth, euphoria, and addiction."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin
 
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Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda telling lies. Vixen repeats the same falsehoods that supreme court said Amanda was there at the time of the murder, Amanda washed Meredith’s blood off her hands, covered up for Rudy and told numerous lies. PGP viciously attack Amanda for lying whilst telling falsehoods in the same post which have been said in post after post. It takes a special degree of stupidity not to see this blatant hypocrisy. If Amanda was such a prolific lair, how do you explain the arguments PGP have to resort to sustain this claim? If Amanda has told so many lies, you would think PGP would have no problems listing these lies. Below is a post from Bill Williams with a list compiled by Harry Rag of supposed lies told by Amanda and Raffaele. All the lies were from Raffaele. If Amanda was such a prolific liar, why was Harry Rag unable to compile a list of these lies and could only name lies by Raffaele?

Full disclosure, this "list of lies as claimed by guilters" came about after a very long (and cordial!) series of PMs with a well known guilter, where outside of the glare of the public thread, we challenged each other on the assumptions we were making - particularly on what the evidence had been, and how we assembled what had been important to us. It was surprisingly cordial, probably because it had been in PM and neither of us bothered to showboat, as they say.

I managed to poke holes in each of this guilter's assumptions - except one. The standard refrain after admitting that something had not been as iron-clad as the guilter had formerly claimed was his return to, "all the lies Knox told."

No matter what we talked about, the line in the sand for this guilter was those lies. When I asked for those lies to be listed, I ran into a rare retreat into that standard guilter refrain, "Do your own homework." It didn't seem to matter that it has him/her making the claim - that person wanted me to make the list myself.....

Long story short - after rummaging through an unholy number of guilter posts, there were only three or four actual "lies" that they specifically mentioned. It wasn't until running across Harry Rag/The Machine's list - an actual list - that they all appeared on one spot.

The exception was a now defunct webpage which had also tried to list specific lies claimed.

I presented it to the guilter in the PM, and the response was, "now you know the specific lies Knox had told!" It did not seem to matter that these had been "lies" attributed mainly to Sollecito, and all very easy to dismiss as actual lies when one knows the background.

Anyway, that effort proved that it was easier for guilters to spout stock phrases like, "Knox was a proven liar" than it was to list specific, actual lies. It mattered not that all the other stuff had withered away, this guilter was willing to condemn Knox (with little mention of Sollecito) because of "all the lies she had told."
 
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Long time since I did my degree.

But we are all agreed it is NOT stimulant that makes people high.

Most people build on their education. You seem to have forgotten more than you learnt. I once had an uncle like that...grandmaster at chess and then...poof...he forgot it all and lost to a complete amateur.
 
Vixen said:
It had no grounds to annul the verdict.

Simply ignoring Chieffi doesn't give them the power to do so.

Marasca and Bruno acted outside of their remit.

As Briars says, Knox has never challenged Marsca & Bruno's damning indictment of her. Too scared to let the US public know that she washed off Mez' blood, covered up for Rudy and was present at the scene, and heard Mez screaming. It also found that like Raff, she lied, and lied and lied.
You keep claiming that M/B acted outside their remit yet you have been quoted directly from the Code proving they did act within it. After 3 years there has been no protest within the Italian judiciary claiming the acquittal was outside the legal and correct powers of the Marasca Bruno court. Why is that? Is it the Mafia and/or the Masons? Perhaps the CIA? Or maybe the Secret Society of Witches and Satanists? Take your pick.

As for your and Briar's nonsense regarding Knox not challenging the C of C's motivation report, you read into it what you will. Nobody cares what the two of you "think" about it.
Briars and Vixen probably think that of the perhaps 5,000 legally trained people that she's spoken to - law schools and law associations - that not one of those people have a connection to the internet.

This is before considering that each time Knox speaks, Peter Quennell and others put their guilter-PR campaign into high gear, blanketing each institution with their version of things. Each time Quennell spouts some conspiracy theory as to why his efforts gather no momentum; once again ignoring that the people he's contacting themselves probably have access to the internet.....

...... and are not effected by Knox's witchy powers to cast spells over a crowd.

No one cares what Briars thinks Knox is required to do. People who've heard her speak have probably - well, not everyone I'm sure - read Marasca Bruno for themselves. It seems that they, too, have missed the things that Vixen, Briars, Quennell, and Machiavelli claim the M/B report means.

Knox's witchy powers will do that. Or maybe it's her horoscope. Or maybe the Masons/Mafia go into each one of those institutions and warn people to keep in line, "or you'll be sleeping with the fishes".

It is bizarre in the extreme the strawman arguments Briars et al. make. There is actually a reason why Knox, "has never challenged Marsca & Bruno's damning indictment of her."

If only there was a reason why she didn't need to? If only the M/B 5th Chambers had actually acquitted her (and don't forget Raffaele). If only the M/B report had made plain that the initial police investigation had been so flawed that it was impossible to tell anything, really, related to guilt or innocence.

If only just one of those 5,000 people who've listened to Knox's chatter had access to the internet so that they could check for themselves. (I've heard that the Mafia shuts down the internet in those places she speaks just because of this. But I don't want to spread panic.)
 
Full disclosure, this "list of lies as claimed by guilters" came about after a very long (and cordial!) series of PMs with a well known guilter, where outside of the glare of the public thread, we challenged each other on the assumptions we were making - particularly on what the evidence had been, and how we assembled what had been important to us. It was surprisingly cordial, probably because it had been in PM and neither of us bothered to showboat, as they say.

I managed to poke holes in each of this guilter's assumptions - except one. The standard refrain after admitting that something had not been as iron-clad as the guilter had formerly claimed was his return to, "all the lies Knox told."

No matter what we talked about, the line in the sand for this guilter was those lies. When I asked for those lies to be listed, I ran into a rare retreat into that standard guilter refrain, "Do your own homework." It didn't seem to matter that it has him/her making the claim - that person wanted me to make the list myself.....

Long story short - after rummaging through an unholy number of guilter posts, there were only three or four actual "lies" that they specifically mentioned. It wasn't until running across Harry Rag/The Machine's list - an actual list - that they all appeared on one spot.

The exception was a now defunct webpage which had also tried to list specific lies claimed.

I presented it to the guilter in the PM, and the response was, "now you know the specific lies Knox had told!" It did not seem to matter that these had been "lies" attributed mainly to Sollecito, and all very easy to dismiss as actual lies when one knows the background.

Anyway, that effort proved that it was easier for guilters to spout stock phrases like, "Knox was a proven liar" than it was to list specific, actual lies. It mattered not that all the other stuff had withered away, this guilter was willing to condemn Knox (with little mention of Sollecito) because of "all the lies she had told."

For the PGP, anything that Knox said that deviated from what they believe is a 'lie'. Anything that later proved to be incorrect or inaccurate is a 'lie'. There is no allowance made for confusion, misunderstanding, translation errors, stress, etc. for Knox or Sollecito. On the other hand, when someone said something they want to believe that later proves to be inaccurate or incorrect, they do not call it a lie but twist themselves into knots trying to justify it. For example, Stefanoni didn't lie about the negative TMB tests; she just 'forgot'. Curatolo wasn't lying about seeing the Halloween revelers on Nov 1; there really were students going to Halloween parties when no one else but Curatolo claims he saw them. Quintavalle wasn't lying about Knox being in his shop despite, a year earlier, denying seeing her . Nara Capezalli wasn't lying when she claimed she heard a scream and people running away (and leaves rustling) through her double glazed windows and then claimed she knew about the murder before its discovery. Nope. Only Knox and Sollecito 'lied'. And heaven forbid the police or Mignini lied about why there was no recording of the interrogation, their failure to provide lawyers, or about using illegal ,coercive techniques.
 
Sociopaths lie about what they had for breakfast. The Italian police had like 20 hours of tape from phone to environment taps and they can't play us any recording of one single little white lie Amanda told anyone. You can't listen to a wiretap of Scott Peterson or Jodi Arias or Casey Anthony for 5 minutes without hearing a blatant lie. Everyone that has ever called Amanda Knox a liar is putting their room temperature IQ to maximum use with predictable results.

I wish I had something worth believing in as much as these idiots want to believe Amanda Knox is guilty. Such pointless wasted passion.
 
For the PGP, anything that Knox said that deviated from what they believe is a 'lie'. Anything that later proved to be incorrect or inaccurate is a 'lie'. There is no allowance made for confusion, misunderstanding, translation errors, stress, etc. for Knox or Sollecito. On the other hand, when someone said something they want to believe that later proves to be inaccurate or incorrect, they do not call it a lie but twist themselves into knots trying to justify it. For example, Stefanoni didn't lie about the negative TMB tests; she just 'forgot'. Curatolo wasn't lying about seeing the Halloween revelers on Nov 1; there really were students going to Halloween parties when no one else but Curatolo claims he saw them. Quintavalle wasn't lying about Knox being in his shop despite, a year earlier, denying seeing her . Nara Capezalli wasn't lying when she claimed she heard a scream and people running away (and leaves rustling) through her double glazed windows and then claimed she knew about the murder before its discovery. Nope. Only Knox and Sollecito 'lied'. And heaven forbid the police or Mignini lied about why there was no recording of the interrogation, their failure to provide lawyers, or about using illegal ,coercive techniques.


Yes.

And in conjunction with all the above, it's crucially important to remember that Knox and Sollecito are under no obligation (or, for that matter, test) to give a 100% accurate account of their actions and movements on the evening/night of 1st November 2007. Obviously if significant elements of their accounts turn out subsequently to be provably wrong, then this can reasonably be used to question their overall credibility*. But there's absolutely zero requirement for they - or the court - to actively prove the veracity of their accounts per se.

But when it comes to (alleged) witnesses in a criminal trial, the rules change hugely. Now it becomes mandatory and wholly necessary to prove the veracity of their accounts (on the clear balance of probabilities). And that, of course, is because the burden of proof in a criminal case rests entirely with the state - for reasons that are ethically and judicially entirely sound and logically watertight.

This is not some nitpicking detail, and nor is it some sort of legal/ethical "differentiation without a difference". The reasons why defendants and alleged witnesses should be approached/treated in such significantly different ways is obvious to anyone with any reasonable understanding of ethics and/or logic. It's really very unsurprising that the reasons appear to be utterly opaque to virtually every pro-guilt commentator.....


* And a prime example of this would have been the use of Curatolo's claimed account. Virtually the entire purpose to the prosecution of putting Curatolo before the courts was to try to expose Knox and Sollecito as having hugely lied about their whereabouts on the evening/night of the murder. After all (went the prosecution thinking), if Curatolo was accepted by the courts as reliable and credible, then his testimony places Knox and Sollecito in and around the square for several hours on the evening/night of the murder. No reasonable person could "forget" having done this, and likewise no reasonable person could instead honestly claim to have been together within Sollecito's apartment during the whole of this time. And if Knox and Sollecito were lying about something as huge as this..... well, what motivation could they have had for so lying?? And incredibly, Massei and Nencini both (improperly and unlawfully) bought Curatolo's claims wholesale - thereby at a stroke going a long way to convicting Knox and Sollecito. Quintavalle's claims, and (to a lesser extent) Capezzali's claims, were used in a similar way by the prosecution - to try to expose significant lies in Knox's/Sollecito's accounts of the evening/night of 1st November, and of the following morning.
 
Most people build on their education. You seem to have forgotten more than you learnt. I once had an uncle like that...grandmaster at chess and then...poof...he forgot it all and lost to a complete amateur.

When I sat my psychology finals in the psychopathology and the physiology papers, we were expected to accurately describe the category of drugs heroin fell in to, not lapse into London John-style street slang of 'highs'. It is classed as a depressant.

Likewise, we were expected to know the difference between mental illness proper and psychopathy. Here on ISF land psychopath can be transformed into mental illness, because Staceyhs says so.

At least I have an education to build on.
 
When I sat my psychology finals in the psychopathology and the physiology papers, we were expected to accurately describe the category of drugs heroin fell in to, not lapse into London John-style street slang of 'highs'. It is classed as a depressant.

Likewise, we were expected to know the difference between mental illness proper and psychopathy. Here on ISF land psychopath can be transformed into mental illness, because Staceyhs says so.

At least I have an education to build on.



Oh dear. Tragic.
 
When I sat my psychology finals in the psychopathology and the physiology papers, we were expected to accurately describe the category of drugs heroin fell in to, not lapse into London John-style street slang of 'highs'. It is classed as a depressant.

Likewise, we were expected to know the difference between mental illness proper and psychopathy. Here on ISF land psychopath can be transformed into mental illness, because Staceyhs says so.

At least I have an education to build on.

And this from the woman with a degree in psychology: autonomous nervous system.

Perhaps a refresher course would be apropos.

No one here has claimed that heroin is not a depressant so your harping on that is nothing more than a diversion attempt. The point was that Curatolo was admittedly high on heroin that night and, despite your failed diversionary tactic, heroin does produce a high. You have been given several links to credible sources that state that. Here's another one for you as, apparently, you still don't get it:

Whether you buy it as a white powder, a brown powder or a sticky tar-like substance, the high associated with heroin is what drives heroin use, abuse and ultimately, addiction.

How People Get Heroin Highs
Heroin may be used in a variety of ways in order to get high, which determine the onset of the drug’s desired effect
https://heroin.net/heroin-effects/heroin-high/

This is just another classic example of your inability to ever admit error. You can't even admit heroin produces a high despite numerous credible links that say it does.
 
And this from the woman with a degree in psychology: autonomous nervous system.

Perhaps a refresher course would be apropos.

No one here has claimed that heroin is not a depressant so your harping on that is nothing more than a diversion attempt. The point was that Curatolo was admittedly high on heroin that night and, despite your failed diversionary tactic, heroin does produce a high. You have been given several links to credible sources that state that. Here's another one for you as, apparently, you still don't get it:


https://heroin.net/heroin-effects/heroin-high/

This is just another classic example of your inability to ever admit error. You can't even admit heroin produces a high despite numerous credible links that say it does.


In habituated users, like Curatolo, who had been taking it for years, it hardly has any effect at all.

This is the paradox of addiction. Alchoholics once found alchohol drinking highly enjoyable. Now they have to drink, just to stop the delirious tremens.

It is very unlikely Curatolo was at all 'high', just merely functioning. Many live normal lives and hold jobs (cf Dr Harold Shipman, Keith Richards).

You seem to know very little about drugs. So, on 1 Nov 2007 Knox and Sollecito were off their head on drugs*, by their own account, whilst Toto was probably as sober as a judge sitting on his park bench.

*BTW marijuana bought from dodgy street sources can often be laced with psychedelics or have a potent level ot TCH (someone correct me). It is rubbish to claim it is always mild.
 
In habituated users, like Curatolo, who had been taking it for years, it hardly has any effect at all.

This is the paradox of addiction. Alchoholics once found alchohol drinking highly enjoyable. Now they have to drink, just to stop the delirious tremens.

It is very unlikely Curatolo was at all 'high', just merely functioning. Many live normal lives and hold jobs (cf Dr Harold Shipman, Keith Richards).

You seem to know very little about drugs. So, on 1 Nov 2007 Knox and Sollecito were off their head on drugs*, by their own account, whilst Toto was probably as sober as a judge sitting on his park bench.

*BTW marijuana bought from dodgy street sources can often be laced with psychedelics or have a potent level ot TCH (someone correct me). It is rubbish to claim it is always mild.

If you post enough about Toto maybe it will rise him from the grave and his worthless testimony will gain enough value to buy him another hit of smack.
 
Speaking of lies, a well-known PGP today claimed on TJMK that David Marriot "sent a charter plane" for Knox when she left Italy in 2011. This is not the first time this lie has been told. In fact, Knox left Italy on a scheduled British Airways 747. On that plane, along with other passengers, were also journalists and paparazzi following her and her family but they were kept away by the flight attendants.

This lie will continue to be repeated as if it were fact along with other such whoppers as the Naparijini jacket, the cap w/ red stripe, and Sollecito being left-handed. To some PGP, truth has no place in their world when it doesn't support what they need to believe. "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself," should be the official PGP slogan.
 
In habituated users, like Curatolo, who had been taking it for years, it hardly has any effect at all.

This is the paradox of addiction. Alchoholics once found alchohol drinking highly enjoyable. Now they have to drink, just to stop the delirious tremens.

It is very unlikely Curatolo was at all 'high', just merely functioning. Many live normal lives and hold jobs (cf Dr Harold Shipman, Keith Richards).

You seem to know very little about drugs. So, on 1 Nov 2007 Knox and Sollecito were off their head on drugs*, by their own account, whilst Toto was probably as sober as a judge sitting on his park bench.

*BTW marijuana bought from dodgy street sources can often be laced with psychedelics or have a potent level ot TCH (someone correct me). It is rubbish to claim it is always mild.


Please, please, please, please stop embarrassing yourself.

Look: YOU YOURSELF tried to correct Stacyhs by telling her that one cannot get "high" on heroin since it's a depressant - your "rationale" appearing to be that by definition one cannot get high on a depressant drug (a facile and totally wrong misunderstanding of what "high" actually means).

Do you accept that the above paragraph is a truthful account of what happened? Yes or no? (The correct answer is yes)

Next, you were shown a load of reliable evidence that YOU ARE WRONG: that it is indeed (and of course) entirely the norm for heroin users to experience a high.

And that should - for all intellectually-honest people, at least - be the end of the matter. You were wrong. You had a fundamentally wrong understanding of what "high" means in this context (amusingly you believed that only stimulant drugs ever produced highs :D). Normal people would have either said nothing, or (much more favourably still, and intellectually-honestly) would have said something like "Oh OK, I was wrong to think that depressant drugs such as heroin did not produce highs for users. Sorry". Not you though, eh, Vixen....?
 
If you post enough about Toto maybe it will rise him from the grave and his worthless testimony will gain enough value to buy him another hit of smack.


And I bet a certain low-intellect pro-guilt commentator would STILL wax lyrical about how good ol' Toto smelled...... :rolleyes:
 
Oh and I forgot to mention, Vixen, that you excelled yourself once more with Part 14,308 in a series entitled "Vixen tries to appear educated and jargon-excelling by using italicised Latin terms in posts, but hilariously spells the term incorrectly".]

(It's delirium tremens, Vixen - not "delirious tremens". Once again, we exhort you not to use "clever" terms which you either do not understand or cannot even properly spell.....)
 
In habituated users, like Curatolo, who had been taking it for years, it hardly has any effect at all.

This is the paradox of addiction. Alchoholics once found alchohol drinking highly enjoyable. Now they have to drink, just to stop the delirious tremens.

It is very unlikely Curatolo was at all 'high', just merely functioning. Many live normal lives and hold jobs (cf Dr Harold Shipman, Keith Richards).

You seem to know very little about drugs. So, on 1 Nov 2007 Knox and Sollecito were off their head on drugs*, by their own account, whilst Toto was probably as sober as a judge sitting on his park bench.

*BTW marijuana bought from dodgy street sources can often be laced with psychedelics or have a potent level ot TCH (someone correct me). It is rubbish to claim it is always mild.

LOL! I think you mean delirium tremens. *

While it is true that heroin users develop a tolerance, this only means that they require more of it to get high. It does not mean they cannot get high. Long time alcoholics can still get drunk, they just require more alcohol to get the same effects.

Stop fibbing. Knox and Sollecito never said they were "off their head on drugs". They said they had smoked weed which caused their memories to be cloudy. No one has claimed it is "always mild", but it is a depressant and to think they smoked some weed and then just decided to go rape and murder Kercher is ludicrous. Their medical tests showed no narcotics so your crude attempt to introduce psychedelics into the equation holds no water.

*Edit: Ha, LJ! You beat me to it while I was typing. Is there any wonder we find her so amusing?
 
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Speaking of lies, a well-known PGP today claimed on TJMK that David Marriot "sent a charter plane" for Knox when she left Italy in 2011. This is not the first time this lie has been told. In fact, Knox left Italy on a scheduled British Airways 747. On that plane, along with other passengers, were also journalists and paparazzi following her and her family but they were kept away by the flight attendants.


Oh, well this is all part of the fatuous invention by pro-guilt commentators around the "$2 million" (or thereabouts) PR campaign waged by Gogerty Marriott on Knox's behalf....

Hilariously (and hugely tellingly, when it comes to analysing pro-guilt integrity, logic and intellectual capacity) the "calculations" behind this number appear (amazing as it might sound) to have been built on something like the following "reasoning": Gogerty Marriott has publicly stated that it has conducted large-scale multi-million-dollar PR campaigns on behalf of a few major multinational corporations based in/near Seattle. And if this is what Gogerty Marriott "does", then it's reasonable to conclude that Gogerty Marriott must also be conducting the same type of campaign - with the same type of notional dollar value - for Knox and her family..... :D :thumbsup: :rolleyes:


(I had meant to reply to your post of a couple of days ago, Stacy, saying I was sad to hear of the death of David Marriott. From what I know of what he did to assist Knox and her family - which was way, way below the ridiculous "PR supertanker" myth propagated by pro-guilt commentators, but which was nonetheless of significant help and support to Knox's parents (and, indirectly, to Knox herself) - he seems to have been a thoroughly decent and fair man.)


ETA: I've just seen which low-intellect idiot on another messageboard site made that stupid (and wholly invented) comment about Marriott sending the charter plane to collect Knox :D :D :D :D :D
 
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(I had meant to reply to your post of a couple of days ago, Stacy, saying I was sad to hear of the death of David Marriott. From what I know of what he did to assist Knox and her family - which was way, way below the ridiculous "PR supertanker" myth propagated by pro-guilt commentators, but which was nonetheless of significant help and support to Knox's parents (and, indirectly, to Knox herself) - he seems to have been a thoroughly decent and fair man.)


ETA: I've just seen which low-intellect idiot on another messageboard site made that stupid (and wholly invented) comment about Marriott sending the charter plane to collect Knox :D :D :D :D :D

The fact that people could see the BA 747 that brought Knox home in 2011 on both the news and on the internet won't stop this idiot from continuing to claim it was a chartered aircraft sent to "secure Knox' Knox's great escape". Can you imagine thinking they chartered a freaking 747 to fly a handful of people to the US? Logic a la PGP!
 
The fact that people could see the BA 747 that brought Knox home in 2011 on both the news and on the internet won't stop this idiot from continuing to claim it was a chartered aircraft sent to "secure Knox' Knox's great escape". Can you imagine thinking they chartered a freaking 747 to fly a handful of people to the US? Logic a la PGP!

Remember - big media in the US only showed the exterior of that 747 in 2011. There is no evidence that there was anyone at all on that flight, other than flight crew.

It was obviously a hoax.
 
Remember - big media in the US only showed the exterior of that 747 in 2011. There is no evidence that there was anyone at all on that flight, other than flight crew.

It was obviously a hoax.

Most certainly British Airways is owned by bent shills who belong to both the Mafia and the Masons.
 
Most certainly British Airways is owned by bent shills who belong to both the Mafia and the Masons.

Oy vey. Talk about damning with faint praise! But seriously, I wonder if the anonymous person who posted what is below would define "most people"?

There is no evidence whatsoever that Mr Marriott did anything to disrespect anyone. There have been those in the guilter-PR campaign who have claimed such, but they are few. Definitely not "most people".

Commiserations to his family and friends. However, it is a shame that David Marriott will be best remembered for sending a charter plane to Italy to secure Knox’ great escape. The disrespect shown to the Kercher family and Italy, is what the Gogerty-Marriott misinformation & fake news PR will long be associated with in most people’s minds.
 
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Oy vey. Talk about damning with faint praise! But seriously, I wonder if the anonymous person who posted what is below would define "most people"?

There is no evidence whatsoever that Mr Marriott did anything to disrespect anyone. There have been those in the guilter-PR campaign who have claimed such, but they are few. Definitely not "most people".

"Most people" must be referring to the very few who still bother to write for or comment on TJMK. They and Quennell must be pining for their pre-March 2015 glory days when they still had some relevancy. I wonder who their next target will be? That much nastiness can't be contained.
 
The fact that people could see the BA 747 that brought Knox home in 2011 on both the news and on the internet won't stop this idiot from continuing to claim it was a chartered aircraft sent to "secure Knox' Knox's great escape". Can you imagine thinking they chartered a freaking 747 to fly a handful of people to the US? Logic a la PGP!

That and the fact that was a commercial flight and other passengers saw her on the flight. As she was filmed by the media in an international airport in Rome and moments after that flight touched down in Seattle, Amanda spoke in a press conference.

These people are Looney Tunes.
 
Oh and I forgot to mention, Vixen, that you excelled yourself once more with Part 14,308 in a series entitled "Vixen tries to appear educated and jargon-excelling by using italicised Latin terms in posts, but hilariously spells the term incorrectly".]

(It's delirium tremens, Vixen - not "delirious tremens". Once again, we exhort you not to use "clever" terms which you either do not understand or cannot even properly spell.....)

LOL! I think you mean delirium tremens. *

While it is true that heroin users develop a tolerance, this only means that they require more of it to get high. It does not mean they cannot get high. Long time alcoholics can still get drunk, they just require more alcohol to get the same effects.

Stop fibbing. Knox and Sollecito never said they were "off their head on drugs". They said they had smoked weed which caused their memories to be cloudy. No one has claimed it is "always mild", but it is a depressant and to think they smoked some weed and then just decided to go rape and murder Kercher is ludicrous. Their medical tests showed no narcotics so your crude attempt to introduce psychedelics into the equation holds no water.

*Edit: Ha, LJ! You beat me to it while I was typing. Is there any wonder we find her so amusing?

The autonomous nervous system of guilters independently functions during posting, thus producing gems such as "delirious tremens".
 
The autonomous nervous system of guilters independently functions during posting, thus producing gems such as "delirious tremens".

Or "Canuke", or "kimo sabe". Or the "<fx >" silliness.

It's more probable that this stuff is a false flag innocentisi campaign meant to make guilters look hateful and stupid.

ETA - you have to give Vixen "delicious tremens" though. It's a tasty dessert!
 
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Stacyhs said:
Regarding Knox taking a shower, here is what Chiacchierra testified:
Judge Massei: Excuse me, do you know how many bathrooms there were in the house?
Chiacchiera: Two.
Judge Massei: Two bathrooms. Excuse me, please. Do you know that a shower was taken? Chiacchiera: Yes. Judge Massei: How do you know?
Chiacchiera: I know because it is a thing that I cannot, I believe, report because it was ….
Judge Massei: But you checked…?
Chiacchiera: I am trying to be very very careful.
Transcript February 27, 2009:
.
This testimony has always puzzled me. Does anybody know or can think of a reason why Chiacchiera believes he cannot testify how or why he knows a shower was taken in Meredith and Amanda's bathroom the morning after the murder?

BTW, Briars, I hope this alleviates your concerns about Amanda saying she had a shower that morning. There was no reason to be upset after all.

Cheers
Cody Canuke :)
.
 
.
This testimony has always puzzled me. Does anybody know or can think of a reason why Chiacchiera believes he cannot testify how or why he knows a shower was taken in Meredith and Amanda's bathroom the morning after the murder?BTW, Briars, I hope this alleviates your concerns about Amanda saying she had a shower that morning. There was no reason to be upset after all.

Cheers
Cody Canuke :)
.

Nope. He never explains it.

A correction of an error I made earlier. It wasn't the JUDGE who said "We are talking about nothing; it was Bongiorno speaking TO the judge. Regardless, it does not change what Chiacchiera said.
 
An article about a case with some parallels to the Knox - Sollecito case:

https://www.propublica.org/article/...million-to-man-wrongfully-convicted-of-murder

"Detectives had pressured Thompson in the interrogation room until they had “enough to get James Owens,” as one of the detectives later put it. Owens’ lawsuit alleged that the detectives purposefully didn’t tell his attorneys about Thompson’s waffling {continually changing story, delivered under pressure of the police}, as is required by law....

But in 2006, semen found in the victim was tested, and the DNA didn’t match Owens or Thompson. Other key forensic evidence proved to be unrelated to the men or wrongly analyzed. Instead of letting the men go free, the Baltimore state’s attorney’s office doubled down. After Owens was granted a new trial, the prosecutors refused to concede his innocence and instead tried to force him into a troubling deal known as an Alford plea. If he took it, Owens would be quickly released from prison and allowed to maintain his innocence on the record, but he’d still be a convicted murderer. And, significantly for cities with checkered histories, the deal would have prevented him from suing. For their part, prosecutors would keep a win on the books and avoid admitting a mistake...."
 
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