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The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017 - Part II

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Bjarne said:
I am saying that:
  1. an observer on earth will see the moon orbiting the earth.
  2. an observer on moon will see the earth orbiting the moon
  3. both relative to the starry sky
  4. both regardless whether the observer (on the north pole) is rotating or not.

The logical point is both cannot be right, - none of these are really orbiting each other.
Both are victims for an illusion
So are many here at the forum too.
Click to expand...

Please take the following test and report back:

https://www.123test.com/spatial-reasoning-test/

Your backpedaling and efforts at retconning your comical boner are amusing, but accomplish nothing other than highlight your inability to admit you were wrong to begin with. If you cannot admit you were wrong on this point, it's no wonder you're incapable of letting go of the colossal blunders in your physics themed fan-fiction.
 
Bjarne said:
+/-1 a day or 2 is total irrelavant


BS, the moon is NOT rotating.


BS, the moon is NOT rotating.


BS, the moon is NOT rotating. Soon my pie will begin to boil if you keep saying such nonsense.
I was 7½ when I understood the difference between rotation and orbiting, - I guess that a problem for you to understand the difference right ?
Click to expand...

Your pie?

Rotational period of the moon: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rotational+period+of+the+moon

Otherwise, how do you imagine we always see the same side of the moon?

Hans :rolleyes:
 
Bjarne said:
BS
from the pole of the Moon you can always see the Earth, and from here it will indeed look like the Earth is orbiting the Moon, - relative to the starry sky.
Click to expand...

Wherever Earth is in sight on the moon, it will always be in sight. Which means on half the surface.

But by now, I assume you are merely trolling. All else would be pure comedy.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Wherever Earth is in sight on the moon, it will always be in sight. Which means on half the surface.

But by now, I assume you are merely trolling. All else would be pure comedy.

Hans
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Bjarne's rhetorical style reminds me of this video:

 
But he's right, relative to star sky, ignoring Moon rotation, Earth does 'orbit' Moon. I think he means that from the start, he just failed (till the last post) to explain it properly.
Ignoring any body rotation, they both orbit common center of gravity, and relative to each other the other body 'orbits' the first one. There is no conflict in it, as long as you add 'relative to each other, and ignoring rotation'. The convention is to say lighter body in pair orbits the heavier one, especially when the center of gravity of the system lies under surface of the heavier body, so without adding anything, Moon orbits Earth, period.
But still, relative to Moon, ignoring rotation, in Solar system coordinate system, the Earth does orbit Moon.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Explain how the fact that the moon always has the same side towards Earth is irrelevant for the question of whether the moon is rotating.

Hans
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A full deck has 52 cards.

uhXD38B.png
 
A "relative to the starry sky" lie when that is not in his posts until later

Bjarne said:
You don't know what this mean ""relative to the starry sky"" do you ?
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Replies to
17 July 2018 Bjarne: A lie that we would see the Earth orbiting the Moon from the Moon when we would see the Earth at a single position.
with
18 July 2018 Bjarne: A "relative to the starry sky" lie when that is not in his posts until later

No "sky" or "starry" yesterday. We would see the Earth moving against the starry sky because the Earth is in orbit around the Sun. The Earth does not orbit the Moon because it is the heavier body and the barycenter is inside the Earth. The Earth wobbles because of the Moon.
18 July 2018 Bjarne: Ignorance that we see the Earth moving against the stars only because the Moon makes the Earth wobbles (the Earth also orbits the Sun).

We would see the Earth moving against the stars and conclude that it is in orbit around the Sun. We would detect a wobble and conclude that the Earth is not orbiting the Moon.
 
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Bjarne said:
BS, the moon is NOT rotating.
Click to expand...
Even English as a second language cannot excuse this very ignorant statement. But just in case:

Bjarne: Rotating means spinning on an interior axis. If you turn 360 degrees, you are rotating. The Earth rotates to produce day and night.
This is not the same as orbit which is an object being in a path around a central, external axis. If you go on a carousel, you are on an orbit around the center of the carousel. Earth obits around the Sun and so we have years.

The Moon is tidally locked. The Moon presents one face to the Earth. To do that the Moon has to rotate so that face is always toward the Earth. The Moon rotates 360 degrees in each orbit.

The Tidal locking Wikipedia article has a nice graphic showing that the Moon has to rotate to show only one face to the Earth.
 
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abaddon said:
Last person I saw that claimed the moon does not rotate was Nancy Lieder. Just sayin'.
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I looked her up. I was not disappointed. A1, first class nuttery.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/ZetaTalk

I wonder how many of her beliefs Bjarne shares.

Wait, could Bjarne be a sock puppet for Nancy?!?!

Nah. From what I’ve read she lacks the patience for a long con like that.
 
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halleyscomet said:
I looked her up. I was not disappointed. A1, first class nuttery.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/ZetaTalk

I wonder how many of her beliefs Bjarne shares.

Wait, could Bjarne be a sock puppet for Nancy?!?!

Nah. From what I’ve read she lacks the patience for a long con like that.
Click to expand...

I assume there was supposed to be a /sarcasm tag there at the end....
I seriously doubt there are many that have been on the same wacko idea as long as nancy!

eta
this link no longer works but she apparently did post at the old jref before it even had become jref! (this link came from the old bad astro site and was posted by Phil himself so I have no doubts it did exist at the time)
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17862

I first came across her in 2002, and she had been at zetababble for over 5 years by that stage, and she is STILL at it today....
:jaw-dropp
 
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Reality Check said:
Even English as a second language cannot excuse this very ignorant statement. But just in case:

Bjarne: Rotating means spinning on an interior axis. If you turn 360 degrees, you are rotating. The Earth rotates to produce day and night.
This is not the same as orbit which is an object being in a path around a central, external axis. If you go on a carousel, you are on an orbit around the center of the carousel. Earth obits around the Sun and so we have years.

The Moon is tidally locked. The Moon presents one face to the Earth. To do that the Moon has to rotate so that face is always toward the Earth. The Moon rotates 360 degrees in each orbit.

The Tidal locking Wikipedia article has a nice graphic showing that the Moon has to rotate to show only one face to the Earth.
Click to expand...
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed to comply with Rule 12
 
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MRC_Hans said:
Explain how the fact that the moon always has the same side towards Earth is irrelevant for the question of whether the moon is rotating.

Hans
Click to expand...

Rotation of the Earth or the Moon is irrelevant , to decide whether the Moon, - the Earth, - both , - or none of these, - really is / are orbiting each other, - or whether this only is a an apparent illusion.
 
Bjarne said:
Rotation of the Earth or the Moon is irrelevant , to decide whether the Moon, - the Earth, - both , - or none of these, - really is / are orbiting each other, - or whether this only is a an apparent illusion.
Click to expand...

Actually, it is not irrelevant. But we don't need to decide. It is an incontrovertible fact that the moon orbits Earth.

Hans
 
In which Bjarne ignorantly insists reality has no impact on perception

Bjarne said:
Rotation of the Earth or the Moon is irrelevant , to decide whether the Moon, - the Earth, - both , - or none of these, - really is / are orbiting each other, - or whether this only is a an apparent illusion.
Click to expand...

That's right ladies and gentlemen. Bjarne is actually claiming discussion of how the Earth and Moon move relative to each other is irrelevant in determining how that motion might look from one body or the other.
 
halleyscomet said:
I looked her up. I was not disappointed. A1, first class nuttery.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/ZetaTalk

I wonder how many of her beliefs Bjarne shares.

Wait, could Bjarne be a sock puppet for Nancy?!?!

Nah. From what I’ve read she lacks the patience for a long con like that.
Click to expand...

Yep, industrial wingnuttery. She even bought a ban on godlikeproductions, which takes some doing. These days, she operates from a Ning site with closed membership. There are not many members.

Nevertheless, the parallels with Bjarnes notions are striking. In Nancy's delusion, planet X was going to swing by earth and cause apocalypse in 2003...errr 2009...err 2012...err some unspecified time in the future. Like Bjarne and his relativity schtick. And like Bjarne, she insisted that the moon does not rotate at all despite all the evidence to the contrary. Boy, that one generated some flame wars. In the end, she mooched off to the Ning site where she operates a walled garden of obscurity for those unhappy few dumb enough to give her the least time. I suspect that Bjarne's ideas will suffer the same fate, isolated to some obscure outpost of the intertubes. There is one key difference though. Nancy has followers.
 
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